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	<title>Comments on: Facebook Bails on Project Playlist, Too</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/</link>
	<description>by Peter Kafka</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:07:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Project Playlist Picks Up Total Music Leftovers From Universal, But Hasn&#8217;t Settled Lawsuit &#124; Peter Kafka &#124; MediaMemo &#124; AllThingsD</title>
		<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/comment-page-1/#comment-5510</link>
		<dc:creator>Project Playlist Picks Up Total Music Leftovers From Universal, But Hasn&#8217;t Settled Lawsuit &#124; Peter Kafka &#124; MediaMemo &#124; AllThingsD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 21:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/?p=2415#comment-5510</guid>
		<description>[...] social services were crucial to Playlist, since they generated the majority of its visitors, but they cut them off last fall, presumably under pressure from the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] social services were crucial to Playlist, since they generated the majority of its visitors, but they cut them off last fall, presumably under pressure from the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Former Facebook Exec Van Natta Set to Take Over at MySpace, As Founder DeWolfe Steps Down &#124; Kara Swisher &#124; BoomTown &#124; AllThingsD</title>
		<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/comment-page-1/#comment-4158</link>
		<dc:creator>Former Facebook Exec Van Natta Set to Take Over at MySpace, As Founder DeWolfe Steps Down &#124; Kara Swisher &#124; BoomTown &#124; AllThingsD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/?p=2415#comment-4158</guid>
		<description>[...] Playlist, the free music-streaming site he took over last fall, has seen traffic plummet after MySpace, along with Facebook, cut off the site&#8217;s access to their users, a move prompted by lawsuits from several major music [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Playlist, the free music-streaming site he took over last fall, has seen traffic plummet after MySpace, along with Facebook, cut off the site&#8217;s access to their users, a move prompted by lawsuits from several major music [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris DeWolfe Likely To Step Down As CEO, News Corp. Talking To Facebook Veteran Owen Van Natta &#124; Peter Kafka &#124; MediaMemo &#124; AllThingsD</title>
		<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/comment-page-1/#comment-4132</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris DeWolfe Likely To Step Down As CEO, News Corp. Talking To Facebook Veteran Owen Van Natta &#124; Peter Kafka &#124; MediaMemo &#124; AllThingsD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/?p=2415#comment-4132</guid>
		<description>[...] Playlist, the free music streaming site he took over last fall, has seen traffic plummet after MySpace, along with Facebook, cut off the site&#8217;s access to its users, a move prompted by lawsuits from several major music [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Playlist, the free music streaming site he took over last fall, has seen traffic plummet after MySpace, along with Facebook, cut off the site&#8217;s access to its users, a move prompted by lawsuits from several major music [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: A Win For Project Playlist: EMI Drops Suit, Signs On &#124; Peter Kafka &#124; MediaMemo &#124; AllThingsD</title>
		<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/comment-page-1/#comment-3362</link>
		<dc:creator>A Win For Project Playlist: EMI Drops Suit, Signs On &#124; Peter Kafka &#124; MediaMemo &#124; AllThingsD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/?p=2415#comment-3362</guid>
		<description>[...] as important: Project Playlist hasn&#8217;t been reinstated by MySpace and Facebook, both of whom booted the service off their social networks last November. Since Project Playlist depended on those sites to drive traffic to its site, it&#8217;s hard to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as important: Project Playlist hasn&#8217;t been reinstated by MySpace and Facebook, both of whom booted the service off their social networks last November. Since Project Playlist depended on those sites to drive traffic to its site, it&#8217;s hard to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Project Playlist - alsbc.co.cc</title>
		<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/comment-page-1/#comment-1503</link>
		<dc:creator>Project Playlist - alsbc.co.cc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/?p=2415#comment-1503</guid>
		<description>[...] Myspace Music Player, Myspace MP3 Player/Players, Facebook Music Playlist, Myspace Music Playlists. Facebook Bails On Project Playlist, Too [MediaMemo] We have forwarded the RIAA&#8217; letters to Project Playlist so it can work directly with that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Myspace Music Player, Myspace MP3 Player/Players, Facebook Music Playlist, Myspace Music Playlists. Facebook Bails On Project Playlist, Too [MediaMemo] We have forwarded the RIAA&#8217; letters to Project Playlist so it can work directly with that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Porter</title>
		<link>http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20081223/facebook-bails-on-project-playlist-too/comment-page-1/#comment-1191</link>
		<dc:creator>David Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/?p=2415#comment-1191</guid>
		<description>Peter,

Great post.  I&#039;m curious to see how long it will take the labels to reach your conclusion #2.  Given Pittman&#039;s backing, I&#039;d argue for #1 also, but unless the labels are willing to reduce the rumored rate of ~$0.005 ($5 CPM per song) to something quite a bit lower, it&#039;s hard to believe there&#039;s a viable model here.  Pandora can barely make it work at 28% of that rate ($0.0014), and it&#039;s supposedly getting solid CPMs through sponsorship deals (presumably much better than a social network like imeem can garner).

OTOH, if I were a label exec, I would be unwilling to go much lower for on-demand streaming rates, particularly in view of the phenomenal take-up of Pandora on the iPhone.  After all, a well-designed Project Playlist app for the iPhone means downloads are increasingly unnecessary for a meaningful segment of the market, so streaming royalties would need to offset potential cannibalization. 

A starting point in the math might be:  &quot;How many times does the average buyer of a download listen to it over time?&quot; Ignoring proper DCF analysis, if the answer is 120, then one could argue the labels have already priced on-demand streaming correctly (i.e. ~60 cent wholesale margin on downloads / 120 = $0.005).

There&#039;s more to it than this, of course, as many people who would never have purchased the track will in fact stream it.  But it&#039;s difficult to estimate this incremental benefit, and also how often people simply use PP for discovery, and then go download it (and how those downloads in turn break out between iTMS/Amzn vs BitTorrent or similar).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter,</p>
<p>Great post.  I&#8217;m curious to see how long it will take the labels to reach your conclusion #2.  Given Pittman&#8217;s backing, I&#8217;d argue for #1 also, but unless the labels are willing to reduce the rumored rate of ~$0.005 ($5 CPM per song) to something quite a bit lower, it&#8217;s hard to believe there&#8217;s a viable model here.  Pandora can barely make it work at 28% of that rate ($0.0014), and it&#8217;s supposedly getting solid CPMs through sponsorship deals (presumably much better than a social network like imeem can garner).</p>
<p>OTOH, if I were a label exec, I would be unwilling to go much lower for on-demand streaming rates, particularly in view of the phenomenal take-up of Pandora on the iPhone.  After all, a well-designed Project Playlist app for the iPhone means downloads are increasingly unnecessary for a meaningful segment of the market, so streaming royalties would need to offset potential cannibalization. </p>
<p>A starting point in the math might be:  &#8220;How many times does the average buyer of a download listen to it over time?&#8221; Ignoring proper DCF analysis, if the answer is 120, then one could argue the labels have already priced on-demand streaming correctly (i.e. ~60 cent wholesale margin on downloads / 120 = $0.005).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s more to it than this, of course, as many people who would never have purchased the track will in fact stream it.  But it&#8217;s difficult to estimate this incremental benefit, and also how often people simply use PP for discovery, and then go download it (and how those downloads in turn break out between iTMS/Amzn vs BitTorrent or similar).</p>
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